《 Half Step 》 • May 11, 2019 If you were in charge of being able to solve the whole immigration thing, how would you do it? A wall? Letting them roam free? Or somewhere inbetween? I'm curious to see how you guys would solve it. Comments [user=23903191]Jaybird1[/user] The people would overthrow the government of every country, so that we would be one big country. Golden age idea right here. [user=19991161]Astronix2[/user] [user=Jaybird1]Jaybird1[/user] of course [user=30733176]《 Half Step 》[/user] [user=23903191]Jaybird1[/user] No.... oh gosh no... [user=30182143]𝙗𝙪𝙗𝙗𝙡𝙤𝙘𝙞𝙩𝙮[/user] [user=Jaybird1]Jaybird1[/user] I thought communists learned their lesson about how that wouldn't work in WWII lmao [user=15026136]CountryHomes[/user] I would let them live in the United States. [user=7532366]~Lizzapie~[/user] [user=CountryHomes]CountryHomes[/user] Do you mean the illegal immigrants or legal immigrants? [user=15026136]CountryHomes[/user] [user=~Lizzapie~]~Lizzapie~[/user] Both. After all, we all are immigrants. The Native American Indians were the first here. How do you think they felt about us taking their land? [user=7532366]~Lizzapie~[/user] [user=CountryHomes]CountryHomes[/user] Yes, but now we are a full blown country with millions of people. It is starting to get very insecure, so we need to secure the borders and make sure we aren't letting people with bad intentions into the country. Also, take a look at how the Roman Empire fell. A large reason was because of illegal migrants who took legal citizens' jobs and brought imbalance to the economy. [user=27110841]♬𝔅𝔬𝔭𝔭𝔩𝔢♬[/user] [user=~Lizzapie~]~Lizzapie~[/user] 1. Was the breakup of the Roman Empire a good or bad thing? 2. How likely is it that America would fall apart like the Roman Empire, they're barely alike. 3. If the Romans built a wall (which they did) to keep outsiders out, would it have worked (it didn't more often than not) [user=7532366]~Lizzapie~[/user] [user=♬𝔅𝔬𝔭𝔭𝔩𝔢♬]♬𝔅𝔬𝔭𝔭𝔩𝔢♬[/user] 1. I guess the breakup of the Roman Empire was good in some ways, but devastating in others... 2. The Roman government was one of the biggest influences of how America was founded. However, more security was added to our government based on the problems recorded in the history of the Roman Empire. However, there is an alarming similarity to the fall of the Roman Empire happening right now in our country and government. Domestic security and morals are failing, our border is not secure, there is a hostile divide within our government (Republican/Democrat), etc.. It is scary how similar the situation in the United States is to the fall of the Roman Empire right now. 3. The wall wouldn't have worked for the Romans, I'm sure. Governmental and military strength is probably the best way to keep outsiders out of any country. However, It's good to have a mark of our border that is protected. [user=7532366]~Lizzapie~[/user] [user=♬𝔅𝔬𝔭𝔭𝔩𝔢♬]♬𝔅𝔬𝔭𝔭𝔩𝔢♬[/user] Here's a good article to read. It's kinda strange looking at the Roman Empire while we're debating about the US, but the similarity of our problems is alarming... https://www.history.com/news/8-reasons-why-rome-fell [user=27110841]♬𝔅𝔬𝔭𝔭𝔩𝔢♬[/user] [user=~Lizzapie~]~Lizzapie~[/user] Reason #1 Probably not one of the similarities you see (hopefully). Illegal immigrants are not invading your country, some are seeking refuge others a new life, their intention is not to take control of your country. Moreover, immigrants should never be considered to be barbarians. Reason #4 I mean there is a point somewhere about America's military overspending. Reason #5 Eh...well we can never agree on who is corrupt so I'm not gonna say anything. Reason #6 America is not at war with the specific people trying to immigrate. "The Romans grudgingly allowed members of the VIsigoth tribe to cross south of the Danube and into the safety of Roman territory, but they treated them with extreme cruelty. According to the historian Ammianus Marcellinus, Roman officials even forced the starving Goths to trade their children into slavery in exchange for dog meat. In brutalizing the Goths, the Romans created a dangerous enemy within their own borders. When the oppression became too much to bear, the Goths rose up in revolt and eventually routed a Roman army and killed the Eastern Emperor Valens during the Battle of Adrianople in A.D. 378." Will America make the same mistakes that the Romans did? Allowing foreigners from entering is not a mistake, treating them like crap is the mistake, otherwise their would've been no reasons for them to revolt. Reason #7 Christianity helped Rome fall, and you can take that as a positive or a negative, I take it as a positive. Reason #8 America's military is strong, and correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it's getting weaker. [user=15026136]CountryHomes[/user] [user=~Lizzapie~]~Lizzapie~[/user] Yes, but, America is supposed to be a free country. Sorry, if I sound really upset right now, but I have a real problem with families being cruelly torn apart because they're "illegal". Yes, everyone has a right to their own opinion, but I feel really sorry for all the orphans that are appearing because of this issue. This article shows explains what I'm trying to say, just a little harsher than I would say it. [url=https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/america-is-home-to-many-brave-people-but-it-s-no-longer-the-land-of-the-free-1.3369612]https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/america-is-home-to-many-brave-people-but-it-s-no-longer-the-land-of-the-free-1.3369612[/url] [user=7532366]~Lizzapie~[/user] [user=CountryHomes]CountryHomes[/user] That's okay. I don't mean to sound rude, but if those families entered the US legally, they wouldn't have the problem of being separated. By entering the US illegally, they put their families at risk. The government is (and needs to be) focused on its own citizens' security before the security of those who are not citizens. Yes, we are a free country and immigration is a part of who we are, but immigrants need to have records so they are not infringing on the rights of legal US citizens. Without records, illegal immigrants are tearing apart our economy and making it harder for US citizens to make a living. [user=15026136]CountryHomes[/user] [user=~Lizzapie~]~Lizzapie~[/user] No, I don't think you sound rude. We are just stating our opinions. :D What about the people that enter it because they are fleeing persecution in their country? They may not have the time to enter legally. Also, you can't just blame the immigrants. There are people who have been trying for over 12 years (I think) to get legal citizenship and haven't gotten it. [user=7532366]~Lizzapie~[/user] Oh, I just saw the article! I believe that article is wrong in several places. President Trump is (and I am) [u]not[/u] hostile toward immigrants. He is protecting our economy and security by removing undocumented immigrants. President Trump's removing illegal immigrants is not based on a love for inequality and hardship. It is based on a love for his country and moving America in the right direction. [user=27110841]♬𝔅𝔬𝔭𝔭𝔩𝔢♬[/user] [user=~Lizzapie~]~Lizzapie~[/user] Why is America's progress more important than giving less fortunate people a place to live in? Imo the good of the world is more important than the good of one country, and a president shouldn't love his country too much, which I think is the case. [user=7532366]~Lizzapie~[/user] [user=♬𝔅𝔬𝔭𝔭𝔩𝔢♬]♬𝔅𝔬𝔭𝔭𝔩𝔢♬[/user] It's not that America's progress is more important than giving less fortunate people a home. Helping those less fortunate people starts with the security of the country. With a more secure country, we can then give those people the security that we have. President Trump doesn't love his country too much. He is making America secure so that the immigrants are secure. By making America secure, the process of immigration will also be made secure. (Hopefully this makes sense xD) [user=27110841]♬𝔅𝔬𝔭𝔭𝔩𝔢♬[/user] [user=~Lizzapie~]~Lizzapie~[/user] The problem with making a country secure is that it can never be done enough. It can always be [i]more [/i]secure. The government will continue to try and secure and strengthen the country, but at no point will everyone agree on whether it's time to allow illegal immigrants. [user=30733176]《 Half Step 》[/user] [user=15026136]CountryHomes[/user] Not so fast! Things have to be done legally and safely. We can't just open our borders freely. You mentioned how were immigrants to the native americans. The difference is that they really didn't have borders against us. Other tribes? Maybe. Yes, moving in on them was a dumb move. But dies that actually justify them coming into our country. It's stating the eye for an eye policy of revenge. As MLKJr. Said it, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. [user=7532366]~Lizzapie~[/user] I believe there should at least be some mark of the US border such as a wall or a fence (like we have now), but have high security all along it. Our border should not be left unsupervised. If we let illegal migrants into our country and don't do anything about it, we will have a repeat of the fall of the Roman Empire. Part of the reason the Roman Empire fell was because of a swarm of illegal migrants who brought chaos, financial burdens, different lifestyles and values, etc. into the empire. If they legally gained citizenship, that wouldn't have been a problem. [user=27110841]♬𝔅𝔬𝔭𝔭𝔩𝔢♬[/user] [user=~Lizzapie~]~Lizzapie~[/user] i 100% support a fence instead of a wall lol [user=7532366]~Lizzapie~[/user] [user=♬𝔅𝔬𝔭𝔭𝔩𝔢♬]♬𝔅𝔬𝔭𝔭𝔩𝔢♬[/user] LOL. America has a fence right now. Literally. We just need guards and security systems along the border, at least every half mile or so. A wall would be a little more secure, though. xD [user=27898727]Aqueous Humourati[/user] I am in favor of a wall. Anyone who is against having a wall endorses illegal immigration. Even the Mexican government supports building a wall. They understand that having a wall would put an end to their citizens desperately quitting jobs in an illegal attempt to cross the border. It's not just the American economy that's effected here; many men, women, and children live through horrible conditions (and some even die) all because there's that slight possibility that they might enter the USA. A wall would solve this problem. [user=30182143]𝙗𝙪𝙗𝙗𝙡𝙤𝙘𝙞𝙩𝙮[/user] I'd have the same level of security at the border as an airport does, with as few fees as possible and same-day service. The clearest problem would be the lines, but I haven't exactly worked this whole thing through in my head. A wall is unnecessary and will cost millions of dollars that could be used to fix the Flint water crisis!! My philosophy is, if you'd let a traveler into another country that easily, why not do the same with an immigrant? [user=30733176]《 Half Step 》[/user] My policy: 1. Change how the legalization of immigration works. Make it faster and easier for immigrants and those checking the paperwork, but not less secure. The reason why many are coming in illegally is simply because it's a pain in the asperin to have to go through the legalization process. Make it easier. Make it faster. If needed, recruit more people to take care of the paperwork and background checks. 2. Use comprehensive background checks. The best type if bc there is, if you're wondering. Use this process to get criminal records faster. 3. Keep the bad ones out. Simple enough. 4. Let the good ones in, and give them an education of English and taxes and government while they're in the country. Make sure they have a job, but they don't go above U.S. citizens. If they want to live here, they're going to have to follow the same lifestyle as everyone else's. 5. A wall? I'll be honest, it could work and it could do some stuff. However, 2 problems. 1. Time. 2. Money. How I'd solve the money problem is attempting to have some form of money standard, like the gold standard but it doesn't have to be that. Currently, it seems as though the U.S. pays for things by taking debt that other countries owe them into paying what we need for. A standard could get us out of debt and could help us pay for it. And less military spending, but not by too much. I liked bopples idea of a fence, but it'd have to be hella secure. Recruit ICE as well. Even then, the fence would cost money and take time (but not as much a wall, but the wall would have greater security). I wrote an extemp speech on the wall and the #'s. I will find it later if I remember. 6. Greater airport security. Again, background checks and paperwork, but it'll be done faster.