Beethoven vs Mozart

Aug 11, 2013

Everybody is saying Mozart better than Beethoven or Beethoven owns Mozart
Yes, I prefer Beethoven but i also like Mozart
Beethoven writed more music because Mozart died at age 35
BUT if somebody says MOZART was better than Bach im gonna find it
Bach is the music
The music means everyone learned from Bach
Mozart and Beethoven also loved so dont come to me with this stupid sentence OK?
Beethoven opened the gates of the romanticisms with his music so thats enough for me to say Beethoven was better.
So? Who do you prefer?


Maybe Mozart can wrote more music if he not died at age 35
Mozart wrote more music than Beethoven: everybody knows that. Mozart was more concerned with elegance and quantity while Beethoven was concerned with what people would think of his music 200 years into the future. Beethoven was a contrapuntalist, harmonist, and philosopher; Mozart was a mere melodist. In all respects Beethoven was more important and greater.
I listen to Beethoven more because our age has more in common wtih his ideals.Mozart did not wage this war of class and the identity of the artist.Nor did Mozart want to break the big societal and music history rules.It is unfair to compare the 2.Beethoven's time was that of the artist fighting for egalitarianism .Beethoven wanted to put into words what philosophy and great lit were saying.Mozart never wrote about nature in his long trips but I think if he had lived longer because of his absolute genius if he had too compete with Beethoven he would have given Beethoven and the 20th century a shock.Beethoven struggled where the most difficult things M achieved without strain.Mozart when he worked hard on his Haydn six quartets shows the scholar and Hadyn he can surpass any test.
The question should really be what would Mozart have created if he ha dlived with Beethoven to compete with?as long as till 1810 0r 1815.Hadyn did not die till 1807 and The Creations- scholars tell us is remarkable but it did not revolutionize music like the EROICA! Hadyn's late quartets and piano sonatas dont compare to Beeth.I think Mozart if he had been thrown the gauntlet and generator of the romantic ethos would have written even more difficult aspiring works than Beethoven.Cherubini lived till 1842 and didnt change the world like Berlioz and the coming generation.Mozart would have changed the world had he had the challenge given to him like Beethoven.Read Mozart's letters he was at the cusp there r radicals things in him commentators cite the gigue he wrote and the last 2 symphonies show a more radical impolite voice and using principles of extension that Beeth would later develop.Also he wanted more power in the later operas and symphonies as his orchestrations show.
What would Mozart have done if he had lived just 5 years later and seen the Pathetique sonata- even op.2 no1 might have sparked a change in him!orThe Eroica in late 1804.Would Mozart have taken the gauntlet.
I want to research myself and find out how older knowledgable composers responded like Cherubini and Hadyn-did they understand?were they sympathetic?Or did the staus quo change scare them.Is Berlioz the only Frenchman looking forward or were there many doomed efforts by lesser cheap minds?
I personally prefer Beethoven's music, though everyone seems to think that Mozart is the prodigy of music or whatever. I just love Beethoven's sonatas, though.
Beethoven, and his Sonatas
Beethoven and his sonatas, symphonies, concertos and quartets. His character and his wisdom.
Mozart hands down. The fools (okay, I'm joking and being hysteric, you guys aren't fools, just not historically informed) saying Beethoven is better need to actually COMPARE their great works. Beethoven "borrowed" so much from Mozart it's laughable:
Beethoven copied a passage from Mozart's 40th Symphony into the sketchbook he was using when he composed his Fifth Symphony, the third movement of which opens with a theme similar to one from the Mozart. Mozart's C minor Piano Concerto, K. 491, is a model for Beethoven's 3rd Piano Concerto in the same key, the Quintet for Piano and Winds, K. 452, for Beethoven's quintet for the same instruments, Op. 16,and the A major String Quartet, K. 464, for Beethoven's A major String Quartet Op. 18 No. 5. Mozart's C minor piano sonata, Piano Sonata No. 14 in C minor, K. 457, is the model for Beethoven's "Pathétique" sonata, Op. 13, in the same key.

Comparing Mozart to Beethoven is like comparing Elvis (or the guy he stole from, his superior, Chuck Berry) to Michael Jackson. Apples and Oranges. Had Mozart lived through the Romantic era - which is to say, had he not died in his early 30's - he would've left the world aghast at the masterpieces he would've produced. In some ways, it takes a more refined ear to appreciate Mozart. I used to be obsessed with Beethoven; however, the more I listened to the differences in the Baroque, Classical, and Romantic eras, the more I appreciate how Mozart bridged all three. He was truly a genius. Beethoven was the revolutionary who learned a great deal from the master of the previous era, Mozart. Had he lived longer we wouldn't be having this argument.
*I must add that for Beethoven to continue composing masterpieces even after he became deaf around 30 is an INCREDIBLE achievement that only a true genius could achieve. He wasn't the natural savant Mozart was but he was very close. The eras in which they lived dictated the kind of music they made. The better question is: without Mozart, would there be Beethoven as we know it? Without Bach I'm convinced Mozart would have still thrived. Without Mozart, I'm not sure I can say the same for Beethoven (and, yes, this is all speculation, but at least it's historically informed speculation).
Beethoven can't be compared to Mozart. Because of eras. Beethoven was Classical-Romantic and Mozart was Classical. Beethoven can be compared with other Classical-Romantics composer like Schubert, Weber and Hummel.
Also Mozart can be compared with other Classical composers like Haydn, and Gluck and C.P.E.Bach
Historically informed? I know my music history pretty well: I've read several biographies on both figures, and read Rosen's analysis of their music. I have done in depth studies of many of Mozart's chamber works as well as his operas. Keep in the mind this quote:
"Good artists copy, great artists steal"
Beethoven took Mozart's ideas, rendered them more universal, more philosophically profound, and more personal. Although Mozart was a natural savant, a genius, and an extraordinary tonal architect, his achievements fall short of Beethoven in depth. Mozart and Haydn defined the symphony, Beethoven destroyed it by writing the summit of the genre. Mozart and Haydn defined the piano sonata, Beethoven destroyed the limitations of instrument and replaced it with symphonic grandeur. Mozart and Haydn defined the string quartet, Beethoven destroyed the finale and replaced it with the Grosse Fugue. Let's be "historically informed" here. Mozart could have never written the Grosse Fugue, the 9th symphony, the Hammerklavier, etc. He simply didn't have the mad, insane, and misanthropist ego of Beethoven.
And your question about Beethoven without Mozart is quite pointless. None of us would be here if it wasn't for Guido di Arrezo coming up with solfege. That doesn't make Guido greater than Bach or Mozart. Liszt could have never existed without Czerny...
Also, consider this statement:
Nietzsche expanded many of Schopenhauer's ideas, so Schopenhauer must be greater.
What if I don't agree with those ideas Nietzsche didn't use? What if Nietzsche's philosophy is generally more coherent?
I love them both, but nowadays I find myself listening to less and less Mozart and Beethoven. Maybe it's because with Beethoven I get a little tired of him speaking to the whole of the universe all the time (well, not always) with his music. With Mozart I find his music to be so perfect and beautiful that I sometimes get tired of him too. What I don't get tired of is listening to Haydn because with his music I get the feeling that you shouldn't take your life and yourself too seriously. It's a very profound and relieving feeling for me which I usually don't get with Mozart or Beethoven nor any other composer. That is the reason why, for me, Haydn is the greatest composer ever. But Haydn is, of course, off-topic to this discussion. Regarding to Beethoven vs. Mozart, I really can't decide.
early Beethoven was inspired by Mozart. Really I can't say who is better I like Beethoven's symphony and Mozart's Sonata. BUT ONE THING FOR SURE. BEETHOVEN WROTE FOR ETERNITY AND MOZART WROTE FOR SATURDAY NIGHT. haha.
I love both, but I think Bach, Mozart and Beethoven are essential for the music, because without them, the music wouldn't be the same, of course. I REALLY agree with albert.heisenberg.96.
I prefer Beethoven over Mozart, but both are great.

My piano professor once said that Beethoven's music is like fighting and wrestling through life, and Mozart's music is like observing life from a distance as it passes by. Both are great, but very different.

But in the end, we all must face the purely scientific fact that Rachmaninoff is the true king of music, forever and ever, and ever, and ever. The end.

Seriously, though. He's pretty awesome.
The Beethoven Sonatas were considered by Hans von Bulow "The New Testament in Keyboard literature". I absolutely agree because the late sonatas in particular, are deeply introspective and for me, Beethoven gives (and make people discover their) meaning and importance in peoples life. I would definitely urge people to listen to Opus 109, Opus 110 and Opus 111 played by Daniel Barenboim. Plus, Beethoven lest a legacy that is still recognised (mostly) today for being the one person in history who has truly triumphed over the adversity of his deafness. Whereas Mozart provides pleasant tunes; that is all.
Mozart's music preceded Beethoven. Mozart's music was more balanced, while Beethoven's was more expansive. Neither technically took music further than the other, as Haydn invented the form. But in the end, I am saying Mozart was the better composer, as his music paved the way and expressed just as well all the pathos (Beethoven's specialty) as in Beethoven's music. Consider Mozart's Symphony No. 40, Fantasia K. 475, Piano Concerti No. 20 and 24. Beethoven competently enlarged the form and took it further. But there are composers who took the form beyond Beethoven, like Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique only 3 years after Beethoven's death. Was Berlioz a greater symphonist than Beethoven?

Nobody achieved the elegance and heartbreaking beauty of Mozart consistently until Debussy and Ravel. Beethoven's Emperor Concerto, 2nd movement was his finest in this form of expression.
Yes, but who deserves the greater praise: the inventor, the expander or the innovator?
Each was remarkable in their own right, and it is hard to compare them to one another as they wrote in different time periods and had different compositional functions. I admire Mozart, but I would definitely favour Beethoven, his sheer passion and musical intensity is something that far surpassed Mozart.

Mozart was too refined and exact - too scientific. If I may quote Oscar Wilde: "I don't play accurately - any one can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life." Beethoven himself said that to play without passion is inexcusable - he embodied the very essence of music!! Mozart wrote pleasant tunes, Beethoven wrote music.

And on beauty, there were many, many composers between Mozart and Debussy who wrote with such heartbreaking elegance. Liszt, Tchaikovsky, Schumann, Bruckner, Mahler, Rachmaninoff, the list goes on....
I remember Gary Oldman's comparison between Beethoven and Mozart in the movie Leon: The Professional. I believe the stereotype that Mozart was too refined, or light, is not justified. Mozart's Symphony No. 40 does all that Beethoven's Symphony No. 5 does with less 'fuss' (depending on what you're looking for), with just as much drama and passion (at least in Britten's version). Albert's post rightly pointed out some things Beethoven borrowed from Mozart in that comparison. Mozart's Fantasia K. 475 has dissonance beyond anything ever written by anyone up to that time, and is not far from Webern. Mozart's Requiem has as much power and passion as Missa Solemnis.

I think it depends what you're looking for in music. I like both of Beethoven's and Mozart's music, and there is likely not one 'better' than the other, but if one had to choose, I'd say Mozart is the better candidate. That said, I prefer to listen to the Emperor Concerto more than any of Mozart's piano concertos (except maybe No. 22 and 27). Beethoven's Violin Concerto is probably the best written for the instrument. Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique is more unique than any of Mozart's or Beethoven's. Classical Music shouldn't be at all limited to this comparison of Mozart and Beethoven.
There is something that is very clean about mozarts music that beethoven doesn't have. It elegantly simple. Beethoven is more complex and uses more rich chord structures. There is merit in both composers, but I am a romantic person so beethoven is the winner in my opinion.
Beethoven, because he was DEAF! and wrote amazing works (398 to be exact). but that's my opinion.

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