MaartenBv • Jan 22, 2019 I have a question... Is it possible to convert a pdf-file into a musescore-file? If it can, how do you do that? Comments [user=29557790]MS_TenKa[/user] Hi, [user=21841221]MaartenBv[/user] When you click 'Upload' button, there is a 'convert' icon at the bottom (or just follow this link https://musescore.com/import). But I should warn you that it's an experimental service. Read carefully about the requirements applied to pdf files (they are stated at the bottom of the converting page). Not all the pdf files compatible with the converter. [user=21841221]MaartenBv[/user] [user=29557790]MS_TenKa[/user] Thanks for your answer! But I meant the opposite way. That if you have a pdf-file, you can put it on the musescore-software and edit in the notes. But apparently is this still unpossible... [user=1831606]BSG[/user] "Convert" is not really the right verb here. "Reading" a PDF and automatically inferring a musical score out of it is an "artificial intelligence" process which is remarkable when it produces a useful result, and cannot be used without careful checking of every single note that results or fails to. It is remarkable if you teach a dog to speak, but you wouldn't go to him or her for conversation. It is difficult and skill-requiring enough for a human to convert a complex score to digital form. Just my two cents .... [user=21841221]MaartenBv[/user] [user=1831606]BSG[/user] You are right! The verb "to convert" isn't really correct in this context. But do you know some software for to do this? Because it's a lot of work to copy the whole score for edit something in the music... [user=1831606]BSG[/user] No, nothing other than this. If this "edit" isn''t important enough for you to type in the whole piece, make it with photocopy and post-it notes and a new photocopy. [user=21841221]MaartenBv[/user] [user=1831606]BSG[/user] Okey, thank you for your answer! [user=1831606]BSG[/user] [user=MaartenBv]MaartenBv[/user] If this is a large or complex score, even if you could find a PDF-understander that could "basically" do it, the task of checking and correcting its work would dwarf that of correcting it with post-it notes and glue. [user=21841221]MaartenBv[/user] [user=1831606]BSG[/user] I will try your method! It's easier and the post-its make it more eye-catching! [user=21841221]MaartenBv[/user] And check the notes if there're right goes a lot faster. Some software would be very nice!! 😊 [user=30972895]email@example.com[/user] There are two types of PDF that look like a sheet of music. One is an image of a piece of music, the other is a PDF generated from a notation program like Musescore and all the others. This sort has all the music information embedded in it and it is possible to reconstruct an xml file from it. A program PDF to Xml will do it quite reliably. It isn't free, and Myriad, the developers have recently changed their pricing structure so there is a cheaper but more limited version available. As far as I know its the only commercially available program. A pity, because it can't be that difficult to do. A PDF made from a scan or photo of a sheet of music is an image. For this to be interpreted the music version of OCR (Optical Character Recognition) is needed, OMR (Optical Music etc). Several programs exist to do this and by and large the result needs so much correcting, its been quicker to input afresh. Musescore has a link to Audiveris, a OMR program that seeks to use cloud computing to beef up the AI in interpreting a graphic. I believe output from Audiveris to Musescore 3 files in is the works (its currently 2.x) Audiveris is also available as a free program to reside locally on your PC. so you can download it and see what it makes of your score. Personally I think a huge trick is being missed here. A music PDF to XML cannot be so difficult to do, if it is perhaps someone can explain. The concept of OMR is hampered by most source material containing all sorts of marks and symbols etc that have nothing to do with the music and that confuses the program. Originally input scanning using a scanner was the obvious and only way to input, but now even a phone scanner such as Turboscan is quicker and better resolution. Once scanned in it would be easy on a tablet or phone to 'paint out' anything irrelevant with your finger, and let the OMR go to work on the dots. There are a few Apps that attempt this but they don't output to a file that can be used, instead they just try to 'play' the music. If anyone knows of an app that can do this properly and efficiently we'd all like to know. [user=21841221]MaartenBv[/user] [firstname.lastname@example.org]email@example.com[/user] I didn't know anything about this. So thank you very much for this clear and comprehensive information! If I understand it correctly, there is a program for convert PDF into Xml, but you have to pay for it and the programs for OCR and OMR are not very good and reliable. I think I will try 'Audiveris'. I'm curious how my score is going to look... Do you know programs or apps that play the music from your score in pdf-file or is that also possible with 'Audiveris'? [user=1831606]BSG[/user] [firstname.lastname@example.org]email@example.com[/user] Why do you think that PDF's generated from MuseScore are something more than images and contain score information?!? [user=27979048]HaHaOpera[/user] [firstname.lastname@example.org]email@example.com[/user] ok [user=1831606]BSG[/user] I don't think you understand that PDF is not a music format (like MusicXML, midi, or mscx/z), but basically an image format (like jpeg or png, although that is not entirely fair- it knows much about text when given text). Programs don't "convert" pdf's, but try to optically recognize what is there. Even the best optical music-reading program will NEVER be 100 or even 95% right. The idea of a program understanding a published score enough to know how to play it, or even what instrument or instruments are involved, without guidance, is fantasy, science fiction, today. Just what exactly is this score you're dealing with, and how long is it, and for how many instruments? Have you typed many scores into MuseScore before? [user=21841221]MaartenBv[/user] [user=1831606]BSG[/user] I'm not sure about this... Not all the pdf's contains special information about the content. But can it be that this is possible for pdf's created by Musescore? Are you sure that Musescore-pdf-files don't contain any score information?? [user=1831606]BSG[/user] [user=MaartenBv]MaartenBv[/user] Yes, I have looked inside them with PDF inspection tools, and a developer has told me there is nothing inside them but "lines, glyphs, and fonts", and commands in the PostScript language (which is the basis of PDF) to draw them. This is "vectorized" output, i.e., commands to draw font characters (including notes) and lines, which may be easier for a program to reverse-engineer than a bit-map image, but it is not designed to be reverse-enngineered or understood as music. Other than perhaps meta-information such as the title and author, there is no score information in PDF's. Find a PDF-dumping tool on your own and look at the contents of one. MuseScore writes PDF's the same way it writes other graphics formats, by calling a package called Qt telling it to "draw this note-head here, this line there", and it does the right thing for each graphics format. Graphics formats do not contain score-representation. [user=21841221]MaartenBv[/user] [user=1831606]BSG[/user] Here are the answers on your questions ;-): Yes I have typed one time before a score in this software. What means that I don't know a lot how Musescore exactly works. My score exist 9 pages and it's for voice and piano. [user=1831606]BSG[/user] [user=MaartenBv]MaartenBv[/user] Nine pages of voice and piano you can type in. If you don't want to, *I* will type it in for you! MuseScore is easy to use once you get used to it. It can be daunting at first, I admit. [user=21841221]MaartenBv[/user] [user=BSG]BSG[/user] Thank you for your proposal! But no, it'll be all right. I will just have to do it myself. I do have one question. Can you make arrangements of pop-songs for violin? [user=1831606]BSG[/user] [user=MaartenBv]MaartenBv[/user] Can I personally, or "can one"? Solo violin is very difficult instrument; to make harmonies and countermelodies appear and function requires advanced execution skill (even if you are the arranger/composer) -- see the Bach Suites, or Ysaye's suites, or "Page 9" (Paganini - old joke). If all you mean is "play the melody on a violin", a violinist doesn't need an arrangement -- he or she can just play it from the lead sheet. Violin and piano is a much simpler problem -- again, a violinist and pianist can just play from the lead sheet. [user=21841221]MaartenBv[/user] [user=BSG]BSG[/user] I mean can you make personally an arrangement for a violin DUET? I play the violin myself, but I'm not really familiar with composing of scores... [user=1831606]BSG[/user] [user=MaartenBv]MaartenBv[/user] I might. A violin duet is certainly easier to compose for than a solo violin. Is the song in any form posted? This is no longer an appropriate discussion for this forum. Can you send me site mail? [user=21841221]MaartenBv[/user] I don't know anything about this topic... So can someone say me what's right? [user=1831606]BSG[/user] [user=MaartenBv]MaartenBv[/user] I posed this to the developers. https://musescore.org/en/node/282567 . It is as I have been saying. [user=1831606]BSG[/user] [user=21841221]MaartenBv[/user] It just occurred to me that these pdf-to-music tools probably [i]don't[/i] reverse-engineer the postscript code, but "run it" (interpret and execute the postscript with their own code) and watch what it draws as it draws it, and "optical recognize" it with a lot more accuracy than from a bit-map. That is the only possible way it could work with the output of more than one score-writer. If you take a photograph of a page of music, does that photograph "contain musical information" or not? Or a sound recording? This issue is subtle. [user=1964776]Papibois[/user] Hello to you. OMR programs that work well exist I used this method for all the scores I put on MuseScore: The choirs of three operas. I scan the pages of the paper scores one by one and have them recognized by Neuratron PhotoScore Ultimate 8.8.7. There are still a lot of corrections to be made but as I can't type on the keyboard, it seems to me that I'm saving time. I used to use Musitek SmartScore but I find it less efficient. [user=30911163]Franknullet[/user] [user=Papibois]Papibois[/user] Please tell me more. All i want to do is scan vocal sheet music and play it for a rehearsal aid. It would be nice for the program to recognize the voice parts, but if I can ID them, say with color, then i could isolate one section (tenor, in my case). Failing that, I can xerox the music and cut and paste to scan only the tenor line, page by page. I tried to use Musitek SmartScore but it was a colossal disappointment. [user=21841221]MaartenBv[/user] [user=Papibois]Papibois[/user] I have tried the demo of the program and it works very good! It's unfortunate that it's so expensive… And I can't spend this kind of money for the program. [user=21841221]MaartenBv[/user] [user=Papibois]Papibois[/user] Do you know other similar programs, which are free?? [user=1964776]Papibois[/user] [user=MaartenBv]MaartenBv[/user] No, I don't. I am sorry... [user=1964776]Papibois[/user] Hello Frank and sorry for my English. First of all, you should know that the Lite versions of these programs are not very effective but also that the full versions are expensive: 269 € for my Neuratron PhotoScore. Once purchased and installed, the handling is not easy but it is really worth taking the time to learn how to use it properly. I've had it for 5 years and I keep discovering new possibilities! But he's doing the job! Really! Really! It is very important to do a good scan of the score beforehand by taking the time to make several configuration tests to see which setting gets the best result. The PhotoScore manual explains it well. Same thing when you import a PDF score. The quality of the PDF is very important. Once the score is in the program, many adjustments and settings are possible. Rename voices, separate them even on a single staff, correct timing errors, insert staves etc. It is also necessary to ensure that the imported pages constitute a logical whole: To capture the Opera choirs I manage not to exceed 15 pages per scan. Once the correction work is finished, you can export to musicXML to any music editing program this export works well with MuseScore. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator [user=30972895]firstname.lastname@example.org[/user] This discussion is going round in circles. Despite other comments here my post explains everything. A PDF containing 'lines Glyphs and Fonts' is a structured PDF rather than a bitmap image. If you can drag your mouse over a PDF and it selects various elements then it has structure. As such it can be reinterpreted and reconstructed as playable music notation. I have done this with PDFs generated from Musescore and PDFs downloaded online from other notation programs. I explained that the program PDF to Music XML can do this (and very well). The likes of Photoscore work differently and attempt true OMR. If anyone is having success with that (and for its price I think its the least you might expect) good luck. My comments about using a phone or tablet are still pertinent. Imagine being able to quickly photoscan in a score or sheet of music on your phone or tablet (so much easier than using a tabletop scanner) quickly erase anything irrelevant, various bits of text and other marks etc, and let a cloud AI set about interpreting the actual music. As I said there are apps that do this but they are just for amusement, they play the result, rather than give you an exportable xml. What a waste. If anyone knows anything different I'd be interested to hear. [user=1964776]Papibois[/user] [email@example.com]firstname.lastname@example.org[/user] Thanks for these details. I actually also tried to scan scores by simply taking pictures with my Android smartphone and AdobeScan. The result is good but less configurable than my tabletop scanner. And for importing into PhotoScore this setting is important. Hearing the scanned music is not enough for me, I have to get a usable XML file like you. This allows me to do all the things I want to do: Separate voices, create additional staves, delete some of them etc... Photo Score is expensive but it does the job Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator [user=1964776]Papibois[/user] Hello everyone, Here, a comparative study on this subject : https://www.partitionsdechansons.com/blog/ocr-omr-reconnaissance-de-caracteres-musicaux.html Your comment Only members of a group can post to group discussions, so Join Convert PDF to musescore-file?